English language is a wonderful thing!! I know some websites use the word "pungency" when talking of rancio. The truly pungent, powerful flavour found in most Jamaican rums (especially younger ones) is nowhere near what I'd call rancio notes, that's for sure. However even old Tawny port wines (30 yo and such) can have flavours which I'd describe as rancio. Old and musty, overripe, very sweet but also rich like a good stilton, fermented and raisiny, chinese plumb wines kept in funny old chinese claypots for too long.
Nothing to do with pungent, at least not in my tasting notes (?) - pungent would go towards use of dunder and such. Appleton 12 I have tasted, didn't feel there was any rancio IMHO, but pungency, yes - same as in Appleton extra actually, some pungency there too. Overproof rum - I've tasted J. Wray & Nephew's white overproof, no rancio there IMHO - but hard stuff even diluted..wouldn't recommend sipping this in any case.
I would not describe rancio as soy sauce (?!?) or mushrooms personally, but each to their own - and this one single description given by bartender Gary Regan seems to be somewhat overquoted in internet today.
Rancio from different internet sources:
http://www.cognac-frapin.com/uk/cognacs/CigarBlend.asp
FRAPIN’s 100% Grande Champagne CIGAR BLEND
Served at room temperature, it displays the famous “Rancio” (the special aroma of old Cognacs).
Flavours of walnuts, hazelnuts and dried fruit combined with dried flowers are typical of this “rancio”.
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http://www.epicurious.com/tools/winedic ... ry?id=7666
"rancio
A style of wine made by purposefully OXIDIZING or MADERIZING it by placing small barrels of wine in the hot summer sun. This procedure gives the wine a tawny color and a rich, unique flavor. Rancio wines are usually either naturally very high in alcohol or FORTIFIED. The results are similar to MADEIRA, tawny PORT, or MARSALA. Rancio wines are made throughout Spain, as well as in southern France. They're usually sipped as an APÉRITIF."
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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... i_63693748
"No, your scotch hasn't gone bad; brandylike rancio is in whisky, too
Nation's Restaurant News, July 17, 2000 by Gary Regan
A few years ago I wrote about finding the flavor of rancio in old, singlemalt scotches and it stirred up quite a controversy in the cognac, armagnac and calvados industry.
Rancio is a desirable flavor in well-aged fruit-based brandies, but it's very hard to define. I read somewhere that it's an "earthy, cheesy, mushroomy" flavor. Personally, I would add soy sauce to that list, but it's a flavor that, until you've tasted it a few times, is hard to understand.
When I wrote about this flavor being present in well-aged malts, my hypothesis was that for years, people writing about whisky had mistaken rancio for "off" notes that were described as being "woody." While it's an undeniable fact that some whiskies deteriorate after spending too long a time in the barrel, I still contend that woodiness is sometimes confused with rancio.
Many people who evaluate whiskies simply aren't familiar with rancio, and those who have detected this flavor in brandies usually just don't look for it in whisky. I stumbled across the phenomenon after sampling a 40-year-old malt, which contained a flavor I couldn't describe. After talking to Paul Pacult, a friend and fellow spirits writer who had undergone similar problems identifying one particular flavor in the same scotch, I suggested it could have been rancio.
The bottling in question sold for $7,000, and we had both been treated to about 1 ounce at a press tasting. There was no chance of our coughing up the money for a whole bottle so we had to find a way to prove or disprove the theory. We ended up asking various distilleries to send us samples of their oldest whiskies so we could evaluate them. Luckily for us, 13 companies complied with our request. Six of those extra-aged whiskies showed signs of rancio.
This subject has fascinated me ever since, and I've been in touch with many spirits companies to ask their opinions on the matter. It wasn't until recently, however, that I came across some conclusive evidence that in some of the old malts rancio does, indeed, exist.
A few months ago I e-mailed Alexandre Gabriel, a French cognac, armagnac, calvados and gin producer. Gabriel's products are consistently superlative, and we exchange e-mails every now and again to discuss spirit-related subjects. This time I asked him what he knew about rancio.
As coincidence would have it, Gabriel recently had hired scientists to discover the chemical make-up of rancio. They had broken down some of his brandies using a gas chromatograph -- a complicated process that pinpoints each different molecule in a spirit. They were able to figure out which molecules were resp onsible for the rancio flavor since certain components occurred only in the bottlings in which rancio could be detected on the palate.
The next step was to send some scotch to Gabriel's laboratory so it could undergo the same experiment. After arranging to ship to France a 31-year-old bottling that I believed contained rancio, I sat and waited for news. I received e-mail from Gabriel on June 19 that told me rancio was, in fact, present in the whisky he'd received.
This all might sound like mumbo jumbo to many readers, but personally I find it fascinating. When a cognac is found to have rancio, it becomes quite a desirable spirit. The same applies to calvados and armagnac, but I believe that this flavor never before has been proved to exist in a grain-based spirit like scotch. Although I've detected this flavor in scotches as young as 21 years old, I suggest that if you want to experience rancio, seek out bottlings that are more than 30 years old. It certainly isn't present in every bottling of that age, but sooner or later you'll taste the earthy, lactic flavor that's the pride of many brandy makers and now has been proved present in some single-malt scotches."
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http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15058007
Document title
Analysis of microvolatiles in brandy: relationship between methylketone concentration and Cognac age
Author(s)
WATTS Vivian A. (1) ; BUTZKE Christian E. (1) ;
Author(s) Affiliation(s)
(1) Department of Viticulture and Enology, University of California, One Shields Avenue, Davis, CA 95616, ETATS-UNIS
Abstract
Headspace solid phase microextraction and gas chromatographylmass spectrometry were used to identify and quantify four odd-numbered methylketones in commercial Cognac brandies.
These ketones are in part responsible for the desirable and complex characteristic called 'rancio charentais' or 'Cognac rancio' which is found in grape brandies aged in oak barrels for several decades. The ketones 2-heptanone, 2-nonanone, 2-undecanone and 2-tridecanone form through β-oxidation and decarboxylation of long-chain fatty acids originating from yeast metabolism. The concentrations of these ketones increased with Cognac age classification in the 42 brandies analysed, and 2-heptanone was present at the highest concentration in most samples. The average concentrations and rates of formation decreased with increasing chain length. Total concentrations ranged from 21 to 328 μg l-1.
The esters propyl octanoate and ethyl octanoate followed the same trend as the methylketones and appear to play an additional role in the formation of the rancio character.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of the science of food and agriculture ISSN 0022-5142 CODEN JSFAAE
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http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA ... 83,00.html
Like its younger VSOP cousin, Hine Antique is also a Fine Champagne Cognac. The average age of the blend is 20 to 25 years old. This Cognac too possesses a great deal of fruitiness,
Hine says, but there is on the nose and palate an additional note of rancio, which gives it a certain pungency or nuttiness. (The word rancio is most often used in describing the flavor of Sherry or certain kinds of dessert wines.)
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http://www.maltmaniacs.org/ADHD/mm17b.html
...an excerpt from the page:
Charlie - Interested to hear about the 'tropical fruits', 'maggi' (is this the food flavouring, Johannes?) and 'celery'...
My trigger-descriptor for an old whisky, nosed blind, is 'rancio'.
But I am not sure exactly what rancio is or smells like! I know the term is used by brandy makers, and the aroma esteemed, but I am probably using the wrong word. Can anyone advise - Olivier, Serge?
Johannes - Yes, Charlie - Maggi is the liquid food flavouring I mentioned last year on Islay.
I've seen it in Holland, Belgium, Germany and Switzerland. It's mostly used in soups I think, quite salty and not unlike soy sauce. Sometimes a bit meaty - and like celery as well. The next time you're in Campbeltown and they take you to that tasting room behind the Cadenhead's / Springbank corner store, pull a leaf from the celery plant next to the door to the patio and rub it between your fingers - you'll get a slightly 'fresher' version of the aroma I now associate with 'antiquity'. Is that 'Rancio'?
Serge - Oh my God,
We could go on just on Maggi! Johannes, are you suggesting there's this kind of celery in Maggi? In fact, I always thought Maggi did contain lots of lovage (it's that plant, right?) because it just smells the same. But there's none! Actually, I think Maggi is primarily made out of soy sauce. Now, if you go towards 'antiquity', you'll also find 'old books' (I know Craig loves that), antiques shop, furniture polish, old clothes (wardrobe), maybe beehive in a certain way...
Charlie - In old bottles - whiskies made pre WWII, and bottled then, or in the 1950s - I have often detected 'sandalwood'. Of course, I don't know whether the mature make had this aroma, or whether it developed in the bottle, but I suspect the former. Wherever it came from, it is delicious, and only occasionally found today - and that in very old whiskies.
Serge -
Rancio is perfect as a descriptor and spot-on.
The word itself comes from 'rancid' as you guessed it, although it's not negative. Rancios are red wines that are (well, were because it's really out of fashion - a shame if you ask me) matured in contact with oxygen, which gave them these smells and tastes of 'oldness', sometimes close to Madeira. They don't, I believe, count on a 'yeast veil' like with some white wines (dry sherry, vins jaunes etc.) Rancios are/were made in Spain and South of France, and buggers would say they can last for very long, as they are already oxidised. Winemakers often leave the casks under the sun to provoke the 'maderization' (oxidising). If I had to add descriptors that would describe 'rancio', I'd say soy sauce, meat sauce, Chinese plum sauce (they serve it with Peking ducks), balsamic vinegar, 'genuine' cocoa and yes, Johannes' Maggi. You could add for instance old walnuts but that's more characteristic of dry sherries etc.
Johannes - YES, Serge!!!
I should have mentioned soy sauce / oyster sauce as well. In fact, it's near to the 'oriental spices' group in my mind as well. So, I'd say we're definitely talking about the same thing then. Very nice - I've found a 'click' with some other people's tasting notes. Meanwhile, this is turning into a very interesting discussion - and I actually wrote a column about this very same topic for 'Whisky Etc.' The conclusion of that piece: 'The jury is still out on whether the fact that old bottles are often 'different' lies in 'bottle aging' or different ingredients and / or production methods in the past'. Maybe this discussion will deliver some answers... Maybe we could even try to reach some sort of consensus (if at all possible) about the importance of each of the ingredients / steps in the production process for the end result. I know that will be tough - and possibly a fool's errand - but the discussion alone would be intriguing I think. But let's not get ahead of ourselves... back on topic: with the range of aroma's Serge described in relation to 'ranchio' - are there others who link this to possible 'bottle aging'?
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I think we can assess that there is no perfect way to describe rancio - and that everyone experiences this slightly differently.